We want more respect! Yezidi filmmaker Düzen Tekkal in conversation with Deidre Berger of AJC (American Jewish Committee), on discrimination, ignorance, the dangers of Islamism and the challenges of keeping democracy strong.

In 2014, Düzen Tekkal made her first trip to northern Iraq, in order to learn more about her Yezidi roots. But then IS fighters attacked this small population. Since then, this 37-year-old filmmaker and journalist has tried to raise awareness about the fate of the Yazidis. Recently, her book - “Germany under threat: Why We Must Defend our Values” – came out. For Deidre Berger, too, the struggle to protect and promote democracy and human rights is key. For 16 years now, Berger, 62, has led the Berlin office of the American Jewish Committee (AJC), which aims to combat prejudice through education. Among other things, AJC promotes school programs that combat anti-Semitism.

Frau Berger, Frau Tekkal, how did you get to know each other, with one of you being Jewish and the other Yazidi?

Deidre Berger: We met at a CDU event about anti-Semitism. I noticed immediately that we have a lot in common. For example, we are both members of groups that are constantly marginalized and used as scapegoats for everything that goes wrong in the world.

Düzen Tekkal: The main thing we have in common is the experience of being dehumanized. This is a precursor to genocide. The Jews have suffered the Holocaust – an unprecedented crime. But the Yazidis are also facing this in the 21st century. We are talking about a genocide. Women are being sold and enslaved. They are raped. Children are being slaughtered.

By the terrorist militia, "Islamic State."

Tekkal: For centuries, traditional images of “the enemy” have played a crucial role: They say Yazidis malign Islam, that the women are the brides of the Devil, that they do not wear headscarves, and so on. Such prejudices are widespread in Muslim society, even among moderates. And the jihadists have used this hostility in a pernicious way.

Neighbors become murderers?

Tekkal: Amongst the perpetrators were people who lived next door to us for a long time. Muslim neighbors handed over Yazidis to ISIS.

Berger: Neighbors who become murderers – unfortunately, we Jews know this all too well from German history.  So the fate of the Yazidis has resonated loudly within the Jewish community.

But very few Germans know about the genocide in 2014. 

Berger: Unfortunately. That’s why it is self-evident for us as a Jewish organization to raise our voice. After all, the actions of ISIS are an attack on all of humanity. It is most disquieting how little attention this has received.

By now, about 1,000 Yezidis have found safe haven and assistance in Germany.  Do you think this can contribute to a different public perception of the Yazidis?

Tekkal: First of all, I think ISIS has only become so powerful because the West convinced itself that “these are not our dead.” After Würzburg and Ansbach, people in Germany are recognizing that they, too, are affected. We have to keep our eyes open, even if this does not seem to affect us. To look away only helps the perpetrators. What I miss is sensitivity for victims. There are still about 4,000 women and children in ISIS prisons. And they are not just “Yazidis” – they are people. The Yazidis now living in Germany can report about their suffering and how they are handling it. All they have left is their dignity, which is something that can make a difference. We must not allow our fears to overwhelm us.

Up until now, Germany noticed Yazidis chiefly in the context of so-called honor killings. Will this new catastrophe propel the Yazidis to modernize their community?

Tekkal: We must modernize. This also means that we must not allow ourselves to be reduced to victims in the eyes of the public.

How do you propose to achieve this?

Tekkal: We have to seek independence. At the very least, the Yazidi people need protection in their Iraqi homeland regions, guaranteed by the international community. This might include arming themselves. The Yazidis are different from the Jews, who carry their Torah with them. The Yazidis are dependent on the Sinjar region: This is their spiritual center. And that is exactly what ISIS wanted to destroy.

Berger: The United Nations Human Rights Commission has recommended, correctly, to designate these killings as genocide.  After all, the IS is attempting to eradicate an entire nation.  It is important to recognize that this is not just about events far away but something that has to do with the West and with Germany.  100,000 Yazidis, a tenth of the entire global population, live in Germany, making it the largest community abroad.  When minorities do not have the confidence they can live in security, then it is not possible for democrats to remain silent.

How can we learn about the fate of the Yazidis?

Tekkal: ISIS is our common enemy; they are waging war against our values and against secularization. The fact that this is happening 3,500 kilometers away does not mean that our domestic security is not threatened. It was irresponsible two years ago to believe that this issue has nothing to do with us.

Are you accusing our political leaders of a failure to act?

Tekkal: I also accuse the mainstream political parties of not taking these fears seriously. The fear that radicalized Islamists would come to Germany with the refugees has proven to be well-founded. Even the rescued Yazidis who live here have no guarantee that they will not run into their tormentors here again. It worries me greatly that my German homeland is now also under threat. Where else should I then live?

How do you overcome fear?

Tekkal: Through reason, decency and the ability to differentiate amongst shades of gray. The world is not black or white. For us Yazidis, it would be easy to demonize Islam, but in doing so we would only be playing into the hands of the radicals. We must encourage the secular forces within Islam to distance themselves from violence and to contribute to modernizing their religion. We need, for example, a source-critical analysis of the Koran, countering those who join forces with ISIS and believe themselves to be acting in God’s name.

Berger: The German public needs to become more aware of the dangers of Salafism and other forms of extremism. This certainly is not Islam per se. But one must not ignore the fears, especially after terrorists have now attacked this country.  One million refugees came to Germany within a short time, many of them young men who grew up in a different society. Thre is also another danger: Attacks on refugee hostels. There have already been more than 1,000 such attacks, with hardly any convictions. We must develop a greater awareness of political Islam but we also have to be aware of hate crimes against minorities.

Can post-war history teach us anything about integration?

Berger: Given the Nazi indoctrination, Germany’s immediate post-war society was anti-Semitic. But we can learn something from how democratic values were taught at the time. These days, there are hardly opportunities for civic education for immigrants, other than occasional information in integration and language courses. This is a mistake.

It may be too difficult to speak about civic education, when refugees are living for a year in large open halls without any privacy, waiting to submit their applications for asylum.  

Tekkal: We have made things much too easy for the preachers of hate. It is, after all, a declaration of bankruptcy on the part of our society when people are attracted to ISIS. We can’t say on one hand “This is not allowed,” and on the other hand have nothing to offer.

Is it still possible to make up for these omissions?

Tekkal: We need to reward those who are making the effort. It is wrong to spread out the “social security hammock” without asking for a contribution. It is important for former refugees to help the current refugees to integrate and to develop awareness that achievement needs effort. I often run into youth who tell me: Just because my name is Ahmed, I can’t get ahead. I tell them: No – it’s because you’re lazy, because you don’t get up in the morning. We have to be tougher on these young people. Expectations also have something to do with respect.

Apropos: What experiences did Jewish communities have in post-war Germany? And what lessons can be drawn from these experiences for today’s integration debate?

Berger: After the war, life was extremely difficult for the small number of Jews who stayed on in Germany. After all, anti-Semitism did not disappear overnight. But a lot happened, facilitated by their knowledge of the language and culture. Not everyone had been a Nazi and strong relationships developed. And yet, there are still abundant stereotypes and prejudices against Jews. The relationship between Jews and non-Jews in Germany to this day cannot be called normal. Seventy years are simply not enough. It will take even longer before Jews are seen as Germans who happen to have another religion. It is necessary as well for Muslims to be seen as Germans of another faith.

How can the Yazidis benefit from an understanding of the Jewish experience in Germany?

Tekkal: The Jewish communities have given us a voice. Our call for help has been heard. For centuries, the Yazidis were not able to receive an education, because education meant submitting to Islamization. It has only been possible the past 50 years for Yazidis to pursue an education without fearing for their lives, and that only in the Diaspora, for example, in Germany. Here, our children are allowed to go to school.

Is our democracy resilient enough?

Tekkal: It isn’t. This is due to a mistaken concept of tolerance. That’s how parallel societies are created. We can see this in parts of the Turkish community. There are those who came here some 50 years ago who have yet to arrive fully in society. We should not be supporting certain structures, such as Islamic associations that promote conservative indoctrination. We are leaving those Muslims who fight against these tendencies in the lurch.  It can’t be our understanding of democracy when some Muslims have to live under police protection! [currently the case for members of the German parliament with Turkish heritage who voted in support of recognizing the Armenian genocide - editor]. These days, I would not want to be a Muslim. However, ultimately, everyone is affected by this stigmatization. It is important for the four million Muslims here to engage in the democratic process.

So our democracy has to send out a clear signal that their participation is wanted.

Berger: And here one can learn something from the USA and Israel: The first generation of refugees could already identity with their new homeland. This kind of identification is what is needed here as well. There is a middle ground between the demand for complete assimilation on the one hand and a marginalized parallel society on the other. One can be part of German society and still have one’s own roots. We need to foster a culture of respect, as well as recognition that certain values are non-negotiable.  This must be basic acceptance of these core values; everything else is open to discussion.

On August 3, 2014, ISIS captured the Sinjar Mountains.  Thousands of Yezidi women and girls were kidnapped, raped, and sold: This was genocide, according to the UN. Even now, there are at least 3,200 Yezidis in captivity.

Hundreds of thousands of Yazidis are living in refugee camps in northern Iraq. The religion of this Kurdish minority developed out of a 4,000-year-old sun cult. The community has been oppressed for at least 800 years. According to their spiritual leader Baba Sheikh, the Yazidi people have suffered 73 pogroms. Half a million Yazidis live abroad – 100,000 of them in Germany.

One cannot become a Yazidi – one must be born into the community. The three-caste system forbids inter-marriage. Even women who are raped are shut out. The fact that the victims of ISIS have not been excluded in this manner is a great step forward in the modern Yazidi community.